Author Topic: Enertia Plus announcement (Read 9534 times)

Richard230 · « **Reply #30 on:** March 01, 2012, 12:11:54 PM »

The way I see it is that Brammo's problem is that there are a limited number of customers in the U.S. (the market is likely a lot larger in Europe) who are interested in and can afford electric motorcycles. This limited market is being gobbled up by Zero at the moment. I wonder how many EV people will be left when the Empulse and Plus finally come out? You know what they say, "the early bird gets the worm" - even if the early bird is not the best looking of the flock.

Gavin · « **Reply #31 on:** March 01, 2012, 01:46:15 PM »

Eh...kinda...but hopefully this is a Growth Market...

If all the potential EV motorcycle customers are gobbled up in the first couple of months, well then both companies are in deep doo doo...

Gavin

Gavin · « **Reply #32 on:** March 01, 2012, 01:57:24 PM »

from facebook:

the blue is growing on me...but that is Brammofan's color...so still leaning Black...maybe silver...maybe blue...

Gavin

Shinysideup · « **Reply #33 on:** March 01, 2012, 02:55:38 PM »

Quote from: Richard230 on March 01, 2012, 12:11:54 PM

The way I see it is that Brammo's problem is that there are a limited number of customers in the U.S. (the market is likely a lot larger in Europe) who are interested in and can afford electric motorcycles. This limited market is being gobbled up by Zero at the moment. I wonder how many EV people will be left when the Empulse and Plus finally come out? You know what they say, "the early bird gets the worm" - even if the early bird is not the best looking of the flock.

Well, Richard, my expertise in marketing dynamics is about the same as it is in brain surgery. But after talking with Scuderia West about the Empulse, I see it as attracting a completely different segment from the Zero and Enertia Plus.

While I'm attracted mainly for the freeway commuting capability and range, I now see there's a huge sport bike following that will see it in that light. The Zero (which I've ridden and you own) is a nicely conceived light, small bike. The larger Empulse with sport bike tires will appeal to those who would love to streak around on a 600 cc ICE bike but without the cost and hassle of gas and maintenance, and, just maybe, be attracted to the absence of noise. (Probably not!).

So I think, at least as far as Empulse is concerned, it could crack open another piece of the market which could then translate into increased attraction to the Enertia Plus, Zero, lighter bikes. Sort of like how Chevy dealers put a Corvette on the lot near the street.

As in all things, time will tell.

protomech · « **Reply #34 on:** March 01, 2012, 04:53:14 PM »

Website is updated now.

We know most of the information already. Some new tidbits:

* 1,500 cycles to 80% capacity (about 90k miles)
* 6.2 kWh nominal capacity (vs 5.3 kWh ZF6, 7.9 kWh ZF9) .. verifies capacity is nominal
* 80 mile range confirmed in the MIC city driving test - same driving test as the EPA UDDS

ZF6 Zero S gets 76 miles for the UDDS, with 30 lbs less weight and regen braking. I expect the Enertia Plus to get about 10-15% more range at speeds around 40-55 mph - maybe more if you really get into the throttle on the much more powerful S.

I agree with Richard230 that Zero has a pretty strong early lead, in word of mouth from early adopters and sales distribution. The ZF6 and the Enertia Plus are very squarely pitted against each other - at the original $9k I could see Brammo capturing a lot of buyers that aren't in the market for a $12k bike.

But we will see.

This feels very much like 3 years ago, when the Enertia debuted at $12000. Interest really kicked up when it dropped to $8000 just over two years ago, though I think a combination of down economy, depressed gas prices, and range that really was too small held it back.

Today we have two bikes (50-60 mile real world range) competing in the $11-12k price bracket. They're both marked improvements over their predecessors of three years ago (the Zero more so than the Enertia, IMO). The economy is a little better, gas is up 50-100%. We'll see how round 2 goes.

SamM · « **Reply #35 on:** March 01, 2012, 04:57:01 PM »

Got my email today. I did NOT confirm! A $2000 price increase for what, a lousy 60mph? Not worth it Brammo. What a joke! I'm looking at the Zero. I actually got to see one and sit on it at the Cycle World Motorcycle Show.

jsco · « **Reply #36 on:** March 01, 2012, 05:05:49 PM »

i'm disappointed to say that after over a year on the waiting list, an announcement with unchanged specs and a 22% increase in price means that i'm not going through with my pre-order. part of being an early adopter is feeling good about endorsing the product, and unfortunately, i am extremely put off by company tactics like this-- using unrealistic teases to get free press and drum up interest. it's a shame, because it looks like a really nice bike.

Brammofan · « **Reply #37 on:** March 01, 2012, 05:14:19 PM »

Quote from: SamM on March 01, 2012, 04:57:01 PM

Got my email today. I did NOT confirm! A $2000 price increase for what, a lousy 60mph?

Now Sam, when you first expressed interest in the Enertia Plus, the only thing you were looking at was increased range. Brammo has been consistent with the 60+top speed, so no surprise there. I can understand being upset about the price increase, however. That, plus the uncertainty of any Federal or state incentives to balance it out makes it a difficult decision. Anyway, I still hope you'll hang around the forum -- always did enjoy your posts.

protomech · « **Reply #38 on:** March 01, 2012, 05:22:01 PM »

The specs aren't completely unchanged vs what was announced 16 months ago - the motor has a bit more torque and better heat management, low-speed handling is refined and Brammo actually slightly over-delivered on the battery.

You both are correct that Brammo badly overshot its original price and release date estimates, and there will be a lot of preorder customers that pull out because of that alone.

I may be more charitable than others, but I think Brammo believed they could hit their original price point when they first announced the Enertia Plus. It will be interesting to see how they justify their failure to meet their price objective.

EmpulseRider · « **Reply #39 on:** March 01, 2012, 05:52:22 PM »

I must say even as an obvious Brammo fanboy I too am a bit alarmed by the price increase because it will most certainly translate over to a higher price tag on the Empulse. With apparently only the 10.0 available a price increase may put it out of my budget, yes even with the CO tax credit... I just dont have that much money set aside for a motorcycle. I have a pre order in for an 8.0 which originally had 1500 federal rebate and the 6k state rebate in mind... I know I dont have as much room to complain, but my wife certainly does! I really had to convince her to let me buy the 12k 8.0... I will have some explaining to do.

Gavin · « **Reply #40 on:** March 01, 2012, 05:54:00 PM »

Hopefully within a years time there will be Zero S bikes and Brammo Enertia Plus and Brammo Empulses throughout the United States and people can test ride them all and make a good informed decision on what they want and what they like...

Right now it is a bit of a jump, a leap of faith for us early adopters...but then it almost always is.

Hopefully not too many people in a years time are saying, "dang, I wish I had bought a Zero" or "dang, I wish I had bought a Brammo"....

Luckily both companies seem to have good product...so whichever you buy should give you years of enjoyment.

Gavin

And yes I'm surprised by the price too...at the same time, running out to buy an even more expensive bike seems counter intuitive....unless the more expensive bike fits you needs better. So for me I'm still going with the Plus...but I easily see many going Zero...and many waiting for prices to go down...not everybody has 11, 12,13,14 plus thousand bucks for a commuter bike.

Proto seems to think the Plus will go 70...I've had the Enertia up to 65...either is great for city or suburbs and even fine for short highway jaunts...but the Enertia is not a highway bike a any speed...give me 80 mph top speed and I will still drive it about 1% of the time on the highway...which is the same as I ride the current Enertia on the highway. I would like that extra 5 mph as it helps a bit here and there...at the same time it is a strange sickness in us 2 wheeled people...we always want 5 more mph...

Gavin

EmpulseRider · « **Reply #41 on:** March 01, 2012, 06:00:00 PM »

Perhaps they can go the fisker route and give early adopters a break... that will also get many people off the fence for a big increase in initial sales and pre-order conversion. That would be a good gesture to those who have waited an agonizing 2 full years, and once you get the most enthusiastic customers out on your product, we will sell the rest for you!

Richard230 · « **Reply #42 on:** March 01, 2012, 06:11:16 PM »

Whatever happens, I am really looking forward to having all of the Zero and Brammo models on the showroom floor in 2012. It looks like there will be a model for just about every taste and need. However, my guess is that the prices will keep the market limited to retired Baby Boomers (more like a War Baby in my case) like me who have their home paid off and a nice retirement plan and single, Silicon Valley-type workers, with big paychecks and a love for electrical stuff. Or am I over simplifying things again.

protomech · « **Reply #43 on:** March 01, 2012, 06:27:01 PM »

Gavin, if you hit 65 on the Enertia I think you can probably hit 70 on the Enertia Plus. The Perm motor should have more sustained power, even though the peak power ratings are similar. You might have to regear the Enertia Plus to hit 70 though, it's not clear if the gearing has changed.

Richard230, I think you described the market for $12-14k motorcycles in general ; )

Gavin · « **Reply #44 on:** March 01, 2012, 09:44:29 PM »

I will agree that Brammo could explain the price increase to us a bit....it is not an insignificant amount and it was sudden...

Gavin

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