Author Topic: Happy New Year  (Read 137 times)

Richard230

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Happy New Year
« on: January 01, 2018, 09:59:34 AM »
I just wanted to wish every Brammo/Victory owner a Happy New Year and I hope that you can keep your bikes running long enough to see many more new years.  :)  It is tough being an early adopter of a new technology, but I guess someone has to do it or we would never see much progress in our society.  :(
current bikes: 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2007 BMW R1200R, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

Brammofan

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Re: Happy New Year
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2018, 10:52:51 AM »
Happy New Year to you, Richard. Thanks for all your valuable contributions to this forum.
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Ultratoad

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Re: Happy New Year
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2018, 12:27:03 PM »
Agreed....  Hopefully there will be more posts in the New Year....  Only WE can keep this thing alive....

MichaelJ

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Re: Happy New Year
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2018, 06:57:09 PM »
Happy New Year, all, and keep riding!
2013 ICON Brammo EBoz Spec 32 (#6)
2012 Current Motor Super Scooter (given to another Current owner for parts)
2007 Suzuki Boulevard C50T (traded in for wife's 2017 Zero S)

Shinysideup

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Re: Happy New Year
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2018, 09:07:28 PM »
Happy New Year, all, and keep riding!

Happy 2018 to all.

Michael - I noticed in your signature that your wife has a 2017 Zero S. It may be interesting for us to hear about your impressions of it compared to your experience of riding the Empulse...

Richard230

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Re: Happy New Year
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2018, 09:48:04 AM »
Happy New Year, all, and keep riding!

Happy 2018 to all.

Michael - I noticed in your signature that your wife has a 2017 Zero S. It may be interesting for us to hear about your impressions of it compared to your experience of riding the Empulse...


As an owner of a 2018 S, a comparison like that would certainly be interesting to me.  :)

I gave my 2014 Zero S to my daughter, who now has both my old 2012 S and the 2014.  She rides around Marin County and along the coast and enjoys both.  I might add that the EIC (I believe they are) batteries in the 2012 Zero seem to be holding up better than the Farasis batteries in the 2014 Zero, which are no longer capable of being charged to 100%. (They currently stop charging at 92%, but can be forced to charge to 98% if you leave the charger connected for 5 more days.  ??? ).  The 2012 Zero doesn't seem to have suffered any obvious battery degradation so far. 

While the 2014 Zero vastly outperforms the 2012 model, I am seeing almost no difference in motor performance and range of my 2018 S, compared with the 2014.  However, the big difference is the Showa suspension on the new bike, compared with the Fast Ace suspension on the 2014 and 2012 models (the Fast Ace suspension installed on the 2012 is really crappy). It is a huge upgrade.  :) Also, the braking has been improved on the 2018 bike, with about 50% more bite (and more noise when coming to a stop) from the front brake. It also has ABS, but that has never been activated so far, so I don't know how well that works.

Personally, I can't really see any difference between the 2017 Zeros and the 2018 models.  Most of the advances appear to be the result of marketing spin, not anything that the owner will notice.  One bit of spin on Zero's website is that they claim that the 2017-2018 bikes' firmware can be updated via Zero smart phone app.  As near as I can tell, this is either a lie, a figment of someone's imagination that was never corrected on their website's product feature section, or something that was planned and never worked out in practice.  :(

I'll add one more comment:  My 2014 Zero was rated at 14.2 kWh, but actually showed 13.38 kWh on the Zero app when it was new.  The 2018 bike is claimed to have a battery capacity of 16.6 kWh (nominal) and shows 15.18 kWh on the app when fully charged.  However, range appears to be about the same with both bikes, as the 2014 model would charge to a maximum of 117 volts, while the 2018 bike stops charging at 115 volts.  Also, the old bike would die when the display read exactly 0%, while the new Zero apparently will continue to run for 10 or 20 miles after the pack reaches 0%.  Since we all have range anxiety, that in practice, does nothing to make use of the extra 2 kWh in the 2018 bike.  :(  It would appear that Zero is doing their best to be sure that their batteries will last for the duration of their 5 year warranty.  ::)
« Last Edit: January 02, 2018, 06:08:59 PM by Richard230 »
current bikes: 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2007 BMW R1200R, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

lamber

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Re: Happy New Year
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2018, 03:49:53 PM »
Happy New Year!  I am hoping to contribute a lot more this year as I am fairly new to this forum.

Interesting to hear the anecdote about the Farasis cells, I wonder if it is a cell issue or a software issue.  Farasis makes pretty impressive claims about their cell capabilities.
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Richard230

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Re: Happy New Year
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2018, 06:17:25 PM »
Happy New Year!  I am hoping to contribute a lot more this year as I am fairly new to this forum.

Interesting to hear the anecdote about the Farasis cells, I wonder if it is a cell issue or a software issue.  Farasis makes pretty impressive claims about their cell capabilities.

It is possible that I have a couple of bad cells that are charging faster than the rest.

It is perhaps more likely that keeping the charger connected to power 24/7 for 3.5 years and the pack charged to 100% as originally recommended by Zero, damaged the cells somewhat. About 6 months ago, Zero released an update saying that should no longer be done and that the charger should be disconnected once the pack is fully charged in order to extend the life of their battery packs. 
current bikes: 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2007 BMW R1200R, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

lamber

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Re: Happy New Year
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2018, 06:49:49 PM »
That's odd that leaving the charger connected would cause a problem, unless they weren't detecting 100% SOC in the software and turning off the charger.

What is true is that keeping cells at 100% SOC has a significant negative effect on their cycle life, although "100%" is a subjective SOC number created by Zero, you would have to compare the open circuit voltage of the cell to Farasis specs to see what it actually corresponds to.
- 2014 Empulse R
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Richard230

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Re: Happy New Year
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2018, 08:33:31 PM »
That's odd that leaving the charger connected would cause a problem, unless they weren't detecting 100% SOC in the software and turning off the charger.

What is true is that keeping cells at 100% SOC has a significant negative effect on their cycle life, although "100%" is a subjective SOC number created by Zero, you would have to compare the open circuit voltage of the cell to Farasis specs to see what it actually corresponds to.

When the 2014 bike was new it would charge to 117 volts.  In its latest condition it cuts off charging at 113 volts, although if you continue to leave the charger connected, it will eventually reach 115 volts and charge of 98% on both the display and the Zero app.  My 2018 S shows 115 volts when the charger cuts off and the display shows 100%.  All Zero said about leaving the charger plugged in all of the time as they originally recommended, is that doing so will affect the "long term health of the batteries" and they currently recommend pulling the plug once the display shows 100%.
current bikes: 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2007 BMW R1200R, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

Shinysideup

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Re: Happy New Year
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2018, 01:33:53 AM »
Hmm... and exactly how does a Zero owner know the battery is at 100%? Especially if it achieves that level at, say, 3:37 a.m.? Looks like it would benefit by a smart charger that would automatically turn itself off.

On our Chevy Bolt, I'm following the practice of putting it "Hilltop Reserve", designed to quit charging at 90% so regen works when I start up and come down a long hill. Forum posters' consensus is that this practice MAY prolong battery life, somewhat.

Tesla lets owners choose the cutoff and recommend, IIRC, quitting at the 80% level, and not letting the pack get below 20%.

Richard230

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Re: Happy New Year
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2018, 10:11:37 AM »
Hmm... and exactly how does a Zero owner know the battery is at 100%? Especially if it achieves that level at, say, 3:37 a.m.? Looks like it would benefit by a smart charger that would automatically turn itself off.

They don't and you are right, Sunnysideup. In fact, if I leave my charger plugged in more than a few minutes after it finishes charging, when I pull the plug the contactor will not disconnect and the charger will remain connected to the battery pack, discharging it to the tune of about 200 watts a day.  If I turn the ignition on and then off again, there will be a loud click and the charging light will finally go out. (Needless to say my dealer says they never heard of this issue before and the bike shows no logs that could be sent to Zero to diagnose the problem.)  All it would take is a firmware update that would completely disconnect the charger (which operates at 5 watts when charging is completed) so that power is no longer going to the battery pack.  ???
current bikes: 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2007 BMW R1200R, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.