Author Topic: System Fault B40 Error Bike Does not Run  (Read 6378 times)

HadesOmega

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Re: System Fault B40 Error Bike Does not Run
« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2021, 08:27:24 PM »
So today was an interesting day.  I had to go to Tracy to do some stuff and there was one of the places that is on victory's list of dealers close to where I was at Tracy Motorsports and I stopped by Arlen Ness on the way home.

Same story with both I to the service department and ask if they service Victory motorcycles and they say yes.  Then I ask if they work on Victory Empulse TT?  Then they're wait hold one lemme go check and no they don't.  Tracy Motorsports never sold an Empulse.  Pro Cycles in Dublin said they don't work on them anymore.  The guy I talked to showed me a drawer full of cables and an EVSE for all their "brammo" stuff. 

So yeah the search continues. 

I have not gotten to disconnecting the pack yet, I will do it tonight and leave it disconnected overnight and see what happens in the morning.
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HadesOmega

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Re: System Fault B40 Error Bike Does not Run
« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2021, 09:39:13 PM »
I just disconnected the battery plug and turned the ignition on to double check and got no power.  Came back after 15 minutes and reconnected and tried to fire the bike up and still same problem :(  I will leave it disconnected overnight and try again tomorrow. 
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KaFr

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Re: System Fault B40 Error Bike Does not Run
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2021, 03:42:48 AM »
If I understand correctly, then after disconnecting and reconnecting the battery, the error B40 still appears on the screen? Did you try to disconnect also both BMC and VCU cables? Can you make a video about it, please?

When you were at Pro Cycles in Dublin, did they still have diagnostic hardware and a repair manual for Brammo Empulse? It would definitely be useful to get these things. It should also work for Victory Empulse TT.
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HadesOmega

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Re: System Fault B40 Error Bike Does not Run
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2021, 10:53:58 AM »
I haven't disconnected anything else.  I will try disconnecting the VCU but I think the problem is the battery itself, the bms is inside the battery I think and there's nothing I can do and I don't want to break the seals on the battery.  I've been studying how to build battery banks and some BMS I think will go into a standby or failsafe mode when something happens to it and you have to do something to wake it back up I think that might be what's happening with mine.

I left the bike with the charge plug in all night just to see what would happen and it just blinks the headlight and green lights every once in a while.  Now the battery SOC is 86% O_o'


One thing I did notice is there are these lights on the battery that blink the bottom battery blinks green and the top one doesn't do anything.  So that could mean that there's something wrong with the top pack. 

« Last Edit: February 10, 2021, 10:59:10 AM by HadesOmega »
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KaFr

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Re: System Fault B40 Error Bike Does not Run
« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2021, 01:18:46 PM »
So that's very bad news :-(
If the top battery module is not blinking green, the module is in sleep mode. The BMS put this module to sleep because the voltage of one or more cells dropped below the minimum operating value. It's for security reasons.
The first indication of a weak battery cell was the safety shutdown of the motorcycle when you overtook the car at full power on the highway, even in high SoC.

Is the minimum and maximum voltage value of individual cells visible on the motorcycle display?
What is the voltage value of the upper module?
Did both modules discharge evenly or did the upper one discharge more?

If the module cannot be charged with the integrated charger, you can try to charge this module with an external charger. If this succeeds, the battery may wake up again. If that doesn't work, you probably have nothing left but to complain about the battery module at Polaris :-(
« Last Edit: February 10, 2021, 01:25:07 PM by KaFr »
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HadesOmega

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Re: System Fault B40 Error Bike Does not Run
« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2021, 04:55:07 PM »
I don't know what to do it just baffles me that the day before all this happened I remembered the bike was running great.  No indications of problem with the battery.  It even charged up fully.  Then bam B40.  It was showing 114 volts so I don't think anything disconnected.  How frustrating and I've been reading both the brammo and victory service manuals and it doesn't tell you how to troubleshoot battery faults at all.  Its like if there is anything wrong with the battery call Brammo up.   Like they forgot the section on troubleshooting the battery.
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HadesOmega

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Re: System Fault B40 Error Bike Does not Run
« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2021, 08:14:28 PM »
Oh WOW I was going down the list of Victory dealers that was sent to me in that Polaris email and I'm just going down calling each one and seeing if anyone will work on my bike.  Then I get to Clawson Motorsports in Fresno.  I asked if they work on Victory Empulse TT and he says no we don't sell Victory motorcycles and then he says hold on let me go ask like everyone else does and he tells me that YES they do work on them.  I even asked him to double check 2016 Victory Empulse TT the ELECTRIC MOTORCYCLE, because he was talking like it was a starter battery problem, but he came back and said yes.  I asked if they do warranty work and they do.  He took down the I gave him the year, make, model, and vin number so they can look up the warranty info.  So next week I'm going to make the long trek to Fresno (100 Miles) and drop the bike off and hopefully they can fix it.
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Ultratoad

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Re: System Fault B40 Error Bike Does not Run
« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2021, 09:20:40 PM »
You might get lucky HO....  I had never heard of Clawson Motorsports and feared they might be a hole in the wall....  So looked them up on the web, to find that they are a mega store selling everything Polaris, KTM and all of the Japanese big four....  Now that be a store !!!!  If you are going to be successful as a mega dealer, you gotta have some good wrenches in the back room.  Fingers crossed....

HadesOmega

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Re: System Fault B40 Error Bike Does not Run
« Reply #23 on: February 10, 2021, 09:42:06 PM »
Yes I had never heard of them either but they must have a technician that worked on them.  From what the dealers tell me dealers that had techs that work on our bikes either went their separate ways or went out of business when Victory went away.  At least there is a sliver of hope.

For now I have disconnected the main plug, VCU, and AIM modules like Kafr mentioned and I will connect everything back up tomorrow and see what happens.  So far no luck.  The VCU was easy to disconnect with a 5.5mm socket.  The left AIM plug wasn't too hard I had to unbolt the J1772 port and move it aside.  The right side connect was in there really good, I took a plastic pry tool and pulled out as far as I could.  Its amazing how they crammed everything in there.


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KaFr

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Re: System Fault B40 Error Bike Does not Run
« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2021, 01:11:19 PM »
Thank you for posting photos of the disassembled motorcycle, it is very useful. For example, I did not know where the flashing green LED was located on the battery module, or that one of the VCU connectors was secured with a screw.

If you could find a technician who can repair the battery of your Victory Empulse TT, it would be amazing. I wish you good luck.  ;)

I would also like to know if the technician is able to find out what is causing all these failures. It would definitely be valuable information for us other owners of this great electric motorcycle.

I watch your videos on youtube and I have to admit that you are really testing all the limits thoroughly. I was wondering if using your motorcycle on the race track couldn't be the cause of those failures. After all, there is a much higher thermal load on the engine and battery than in normal operation. What do you think?
« Last Edit: February 11, 2021, 01:14:04 PM by KaFr »
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Re: System Fault B40 Error Bike Does not Run
« Reply #25 on: February 11, 2021, 05:45:17 PM »
One last thing HO....  AND I'm sure you are probably aware of this....  Polaris just doesn't want to deal with these things....  AND when batteries were failing under warranty, they were giving owners new Scouts or an equivalent $$$$ towards the purchase of another Indian motorcycle !!!!  Sure better than a poke in the eye....  Actually, a pretty stand-up thing to do....  No clue if they are still doing this....  I would certainly be the squeaky wheel though !!!!

HadesOmega

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Re: System Fault B40 Error Bike Does not Run
« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2021, 06:51:56 AM »
Hmm yeah maybe taking it the track reduced its life but that's why there are so many safeties on the bike.  I've had it where it was so cold the bike didn't want to charge, where it shows how many amps is going in it was negative current haha probably because the bike is heating up the battery with the heaters.  I've had the regen cutoff due to overheating battery.  I've had a bunch of times it hit low voltage cutoff.  But I feel that's what they designed this bike for riding it fast.

I haven't really posted any of my trackday videos you'd definitely push the bike to it's limits.  The bike is only good for 1 or 2 track sessions and after that the battery gets heat soaked from repeated discharging and charging.  After that you have to get used to reduced performance, best thing to do is take another bike to the track with you. 

Anyway here's what happened today.  I got a voicemail from Zach from Victory Motorcycles who sent me the email about finding a service center.  He was following up if I got the email and I sent him an email back says yes I got it and I told him that I was able to find a service center but it was 100 miles away.  He said to let him know when I've dropped the bike off and he can get things started on his end.  So that's good, Victory is aware of my situation and they're going to do something about it.

I plugged all the connectors back in today and and fired the bike up again and nothing new happened.  I think it really is a problem with the battery or the BMS.  So the ball will be tossed to Clawson Motorsports next week and see what they can do about it.  I also got a voicemail from Clawson Motorsports and they told me to bring the charger in with the bike.  I will bring my level 1 charger I guess.  I did try the stock evse since they mentioned it and still the same problem.  I'm pretty sure it's not the evse but I will bring it with me. 

So I was putting the bike back together and I was looking at the fuse box and thought hmm I didn't check the fuse box, that's the most basic of things to check right?  Anyway I did check EVERY fuse even the high voltage ones after disconnecting the main power again.  It very surprising they don't have a fuse box diagram on the fuse box, I had to break out the owners manual.  Anyway I checked every fused by checking the resistance with a multimeter.  None of them were blown so that rules the fuse box out.  I did pull out the relays and put them back in also.  So yes I've done everything I could do :(

Also yes I have heard Polaris were buying back bikes.  It's surprising how common it is for the battery to malfunction on these bikes.    I'm also surprised on the battery warranty I would have thought it would be more because the warranty for California Toyota Prius batteries is 10 years and 150,000 miles.  I would think a pure EV battery would have a better warranty.  Anyway if they can fix my bike and take care of the B9 and B40 faults I will be happy.  If they could replace the battery I would be happy, its clearly defective.  That would be the best case scenario.  If they can't fix it and they buy the bike back that would be the next best scenario because the alternative is a 475lbs paperweight.  I wouldn't mind a FTR1200, I wouldn't mind an Energica also.  So we'll see what happens, it's such a fantastic bike I'd like to keep riding it, plus not too long ago I put new tires on it for $500 and I just paid the registration on it.  I bought the bike when Victory was going out of business and I got the bike for pretty much $7500 after all the discount, credits, and rebates so I'd say I did ok.  I was hoping to get more life out of the bike but I'd say I got my moneys worth.  If I had paid full price I would not be happy that's for sure.

Also I feel bad for all the Brammo owners they don't have any support.  Victory changed the bike so much the electronics aren't compatible.  The only stuff that interchanges is the mechanical stuff. 
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KaFr

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Re: System Fault B40 Error Bike Does not Run
« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2021, 04:03:57 PM »
Check out the Victory Empulse TT owner group on Facebook. One of them had the same battery problem as you, and Polaris bought the motorcycle back from him instead of repairing it.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1495976887113548
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Re: System Fault B40 Error Bike Does not Run
« Reply #28 on: February 13, 2021, 05:33:29 AM »
Really sad too read about the trouble with your bike. Saw the videos too. Like you I think the issue is with the bms as the pack voltage seems good. Since Polaris altered the battery packs for the Victory Empulse, you might think they could repair or replace it. Sadly electric bike dealers I've met just exchange parts to the manufacturer instructions. A battery module for my Brammo is over $700 on eBay. It would still need programming and no one seems to do tha
Cars have moved on, people \ companies repair electric cars so we can hope. Best of luck.

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HadesOmega

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Re: System Fault B40 Error Bike Does not Run
« Reply #29 on: February 13, 2021, 02:44:38 PM »
Here are some video I made about my problems with the bike I've tried everything I could time to seek professional help.







Another thing I noticed is I was thumbing through the menus and my BTL (Battery Temp Lower) doesn't read anything it's dashed out.  Whereas my BTH has a reading.  This could be related to the fault could be the temp sensor failed on the lower pack and the BMS is freaking out.

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