Where do you go now and what do you get charged for regular maintenance?

[MichaelJ]

My 2013 Empulse R has passed 6,000 miles, so it's time to make a service appointment.  The company that had been Brammo's local authorized service center, Seattle E-Bike, referred me with no explanation to the local Victory dealership, Lynnwood Motoplex.


Today I paid them a visit and learned the following:


* Yes, they have an Empulse TT in stock, having pride of place in their Victory/Indian showroom near the window looking nice in red, but otherwise quite similar to the Empulse R we know.  Pictures to follow.
* No, they've not sold even one yet.
* They were surprised to see someone show up with an Empulse they hadn't sold themselves.
* They were doubly surprised that I'd bought it used (http://brammoforum.com/index.php?topic=2550.0).
* They think they can service my Empulse R, but they would need equipment and information specific to that model because of its differences from the TT.
* To get that equipment and information might take a couple of weeks.
* They estimate the labor cost alone would be $600.  My 3,000-mile service appointment cost closer to $300, so this estimate seems a little high, even if the extra work for the 6k service is to replace the brake fluid and suspension oil.


How have your service appointment experiences been?  Have you had your Brammos serviced by Victory technicians yet?  Did they charge you reasonable prices compared to your Brammo authorized technicians?

[Ashveratu]

Holy Moly, $300 for a 3k service? I only paid $20 for a couple quarts of oil, plus 30 minutes to change it and then adjust the chain tension and check tire pressure. I may need to buy some brake fluid, the front brake is starting to feel a bit soft....

What I am trying to say is, $300 seems outrageous, $600 is simply ludicrous. It is too easy to do the maintenance yourself. The only time I would ever bring the bike into a shop is if there is a problem with the electronics or battery. That's just me though, not to mention, the closest Victory dealer to me is over an hour away.

[Shinysideup]

Holy Moly, $300 for a 3k service? I only paid $20 for a couple quarts of oil, plus 30 minutes to change it and then adjust the chain tension and check tire pressure. I may need to buy some brake fluid, the front brake is starting to feel a bit soft....

What I am trying to say is, $300 seems outrageous, $600 is simply ludicrous. It is too easy to do the maintenance yourself.

+1

And if you don't want to DIY, you may want to consider using a more reasonable shop or indie mechanic for everything other than electric/electronic issues specific to this bike. Brakes is brakes!

[MichaelJ]

Thanks for the reality check, Ashveratu.  Unfortunately, I'm not a DIYer, except for greasing the chain and maintaining tire pressure, so I'd like to leave the fluids and safety issues to trained professionals.

And if you don't want to DIY, you may want to consider using a more reasonable shop or indie mechanic for everything other than electric/electronic issues specific to this bike. Brakes is brakes!

I see your point about leaving the traditional motorcycle parts' inspection to a traditional motorcycle shop.  Lynnwood Motoplex IS a traditional motorcycle shop, but I can find ones closer to home.  However, I know at least one of them refused to look at bikes whose manufacturer wasn't named on their sign out front.


You didn't say whether or not you bring your motor & battery to a Brammo/Polaris approved technician for inspection though.  I wonder if Lynnwood Motoplex would let me ask them to ONLY check the motor & battery.  They'd probably be pissed and charge me at least $300 anyway, and then refuse to recharge the bike (I live 27 miles away--a round trip would be dicey.)  Captive audience.

[cybergodzilla]

For my maintenance it was over $200 & all the fluids were replaced. I did bring my own quart of oil so they didn't charge me that. This was Indian/Victory Motorcycles and the previous Brammo Dealer was even more affordable. Neither close to $300. Other places would not touch my bike, but I did get a transmission oil change done once at Lucas Oil Pit Stop that does cars =Þ

[Shinysideup]

I found these by searching for "Mechanic Seattle" on the PNWriders.com forum:

Dave at SUB (Seattle Used Bikes). 4905 Aurora Ave N, Seattle, WA 98103
(206) 535-6812

Seattle Cycle Service up in Edmonds is good.

This is over a year old, but might be worth checking out:

http://pnwriders.com/threads/looking-for-a-trustworthy-mechanic.199313/#post-3183421

[+progress-]

I have performed general motorcycle maintenance for my Empluse myself but it is my understanding that  battery/powertrain issues must be dealt with by Brammo authorized/trained techs.

* They were surprised to see someone show up with an Empulse they hadn't sold themselves.

This is especially annoying for me to hear as my Empulse has been in their possession for nearly 2 months (WTF!) waiting for warranty battery work (it was at Seattle E-Bike for 2 weeks before that).  There has been a discouraging amount of communication issues between the dealership and Polaris.  It appears that any progress on my bike requires me to be the middle man between them as entire work weeks of potential progress have been lost when HQ had assured me that the dealer had everything they needed but when I contacted them they had no idea what I was talking about.

It is my hope that these issues are a result of it being the first time Polaris and a dealership have had to deal with diagnosing and performing warranty repair work on a battery system of an Empulse.  Hopefully my ordeal is streamlining the process for all other owners out there at any dealership not just Lynnwood Motoplex.
Unfortunately, this 2 month wait I have had to endure could be the symptom of a company that just doesn't care about our small group of unimportant owners who don't deserve any customer service or courtesy and everyone involved has adopted a "not my problem" attitude.
I hope for the former but everything points to the latter 

[MichaelJ]

+progress-, thank you very much for reporting about your situation with Lynnwood Motoplex.  From your other posts, I gather that you have a white Empulse R.  If that's the case, we probably met a couple of years ago at the XXX Root Beer Drive In for one of the National Drive Electric Week EV shows organized by the Seattle EV Association.


I'm sorry to hear that you're having trouble with their service departmentex and hope that they'll soon be able to get past their teething problems, taking what they've learned from their experience with your bike to improve service for other Brammo stepchildren customers.  May I ask what they're quoting for their service?  If it's service under warranty, then hopefully they're not charging you directly.  As you read earlier, they (a service associate named Kirk), quoted me $600 in labor costs.


Is all of their communication with Polaris?  I wonder if they communicate with Brammo, too.


I'm surprised to not find many posts from people here about their experiences with Victory servicing their Brammos.  I would've thought that some here have ridden enough since the Polaris announcement to reach their next scheduled maintenance appointment.  For example, there was a recent post on this site about a German Enertia owner looking for a local authorized technician.


While I dearly enjoy the Empulse, it will be a let down if its fuel savings are erased by unreasonable pricing and its exciting performance is dulled by poor customer service of the closest authorized service center.

+progress-, I wish you a speedy resolution to the battery warranty issue.  I hope that you will keep us informed about this situation.

[skuzzle]

I think you'll be disappointed if you expect the Empulse to cost less for service than any other motorcycle.  I have found the cost of service a bit disappointing for my Empulse.  I have also found that specific electric work, such as software updates, gets ignored during the service.  I now do most service myself.  The Polaris dealership where I bought it stopped accepting Empulse's for a while, but takes them now.

[JeffK]

My dealer in the Netherlands always was more of a HD service station, but after he started selling Brammo's he became a Victory dealership.

Glenn, the owner, knows quite a bit about the Brammo's.
I find the service prices reasonable up till now.(100-350 Euro, depending on parts and services required)
With 25K on the bike, it seems like the woes have subsided (fingers crossed)

[vtbrammorider]

My 2013 Empulse R has passed 6,000 miles, so it's time to make a service appointment.  The company that had been Brammo's local authorized service center, Seattle E-Bike, referred me with no explanation to the local Victory dealership, Lynnwood Motoplex.


Today I paid them a visit and learned the following:


* Yes, they have an Empulse TT in stock, having pride of place in their Victory/Indian showroom near the window looking nice in red, but otherwise quite similar to the Empulse R we know.  Pictures to follow.
* No, they've not sold even one yet.
* They were surprised to see someone show up with an Empulse they hadn't sold themselves.
* They were doubly surprised that I'd bought it used (http://brammoforum.com/index.php?topic=2550.0).
* They think they can service my Empulse R, but they would need equipment and information specific to that model because of its differences from the TT.
* To get that equipment and information might take a couple of weeks.
* They estimate the labor cost alone would be $600.  My 3,000-mile service appointment cost closer to $300, so this estimate seems a little high, even if the extra work for the 6k service is to replace the brake fluid and suspension oil.


How have your service appointment experiences been?  Have you had your Brammos serviced by Victory technicians yet?  Did they charge you reasonable prices compared to your Brammo authorized technicians?

+1 on the 600$ being ridiculous.  I did a post on the suspension change and consulted with my suspension guru who helps me with my race setup and the Marzocchi owners manual indicates that fluid change is not needed until 15kmi.  (BTW you may have more luck at a Ducati dealer for those forks if you decide to do them)

The oil can be a bit of a pain and I understand if you don't want to mess with it/ other fluids but I've had much less grief doing everything myself.

Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk

[MichaelJ]

skuzzle:

I think you'll be disappointed if you expect the Empulse to cost less for service than any other motorcycle.

As a data point, my 11,000-mile Suzuki Boulevard service appointment cost ~$330 for parts and labor.  I'm not looking for the Empulse service to be cheaper, but I'm also not expecting to be charged double (the $600 quote did not include any parts).

vtbrammorider:

(BTW you may have more luck at a Ducati dealer for those forks if you decide to do them)

vtbrammorider, thanks for the advice about seeking out a Ducati shop.  I know of one that I can go to for servicing the non-electric parts.  They changed the Empulse's transmission fluid at the 3,000-mi mark and originally sold me the Boulevard back when they still sold other brands.

As far as self-maintenance, I bought a shaft-drive cruiser so that I wouldn't have to grease the chain.  Ironic that it's an electric motorcycle that made me learn how.    It's admirable that many of you check your own bolts, nuts, and fluids; I salute you.  But I'm pretty sure most of you aren't Brammo or Victory Certified Technicians, either.

+progress-:

I have performed general motorcycle maintenance for my Empluse myself but it is my understanding that  battery/powertrain issues must be dealt with by Brammo authorized/trained techs.

Exactly. 


Thank you all for your replies and suggestions so far.  It seems that there are many people who perform their own basic maintenance, which I guess is typical among motorcyclists.  To summarize:

me:	was quoted USD $600 for labor alone for 6,000-mile service; gave dealership my VIN, now waiting on dealership to say they're ready to service my bike; I grease the chain and maintain tire pressure, but do no other service myself
vtbrammorider:	thought USD $600 is too high; does his own maintenance with the help of local non-Brammo experts; advises to do it yourself or find a Ducati dealer
Ashveratu:	thought USD $300 is too high for 3,000-mile service; does all service himself; ignores electrical system unless a problem occurs; nearest Victory dealership is too far away
JeffK:	reported USD $395 (EUR 350) for service, which he deemed reasonable; finds service at local Victory dealership; has ridden 25,000 (kilometers?) and problems are behind him
cybergodzilla:	reported USD $200+ for maintenance and replacement of fluids by a Victory dealership, which was more expensive than an earlier experience with a Brammo dealership
skuzzle:	doesn't expect prices to be lower than for ICE motorcycles;  finds cost of service disappointing; service also overlooks software updates; mostly does own service except for what only the local Polaris dealership is authorized to do
+progress-:	bike is currently at Lynnwood Motoplex for disappointingly longer than expected waiting for communication problems to be resolved between dealership and Polaris
Shinysideup:	recommended local (to me) traditional bike technicians, but didn't describe any interactions with authorized technicians

[Shinysideup]

  It's admirable that many of you check your own bolts, nuts, and fluids; I salute you.  But I'm pretty sure most of you aren't Brammo or Victory Certified Technicians, either.

+progress-:

I have performed general motorcycle maintenance for my Empluse myself but it is my understanding that  battery/powertrain issues must be dealt with by Brammo authorized/trained techs.

Exactly. 


Thank you all for your replies and suggestions so far.  It seems that there are many people who perform their own basic maintenance, which I guess is typical among motorcyclists. 

I'm in agreement that Brammo-specific electronic issues need to be addressed by someone trained in them. I haven't spoken of such experience here, because I have yet to have a need to seek out a qualified Victory technician (other than for a software update) and I figure the longer I wait, the more chance of a Victory mechanic answering my questions with something other than, "Huh?" That was the response I got at one dealer contacted about a month ago.

I'd add another perspective to your correct observation that most of us on here aren't Brammo or Victory Certified Technicians:

In my 50 years of riding, I'd say that DIY is, in general, a safer way to go for many service items (not Brammo/Victory electronics!).

I have had many experiences of over-worked/inexperienced mechanics, in a hurry, do sloppy work and I've read of countless horror stories of such work, like front fork clamps being left loose and incorrectly torqued fasteners. If you learn how to use a torque wrench and take the time to look up the proper values, your training doesn't matter so much as your diligence and care in taking your time to do it right.

E.g.: My local BMW shop would adjust my R1200R valves and the engine would run OK. After reading on the forums about how to take the extra time to adjust them "spot-on", I started doing the job myself and the engine would sing in its sewing-machine smoothness and hold the adjustment longer, saving me money and adding to my enjoyment of ownership.

Of course if you abhor DIY, then pay and take your chances AFTER researching who's good in your area.

I really appreciate this forum as a place where we can share our Victory service experience while Polaris gets things sorted. And thanks for the "summary."

[+progress-]

From your other posts, I gather that you have a white Empulse R.  If that's the case, we probably met a couple of years ago at the XXX Root Beer Drive In for one of the National Drive Electric Week EV shows organized by the Seattle EV Association.

You are correct I do have a white Empulse R and my bike and I were at that event at XXX Root Beer.  Did seeing my bike in person ignite the spark that led to your purchase? 

May I ask what they're quoting for their service?  If it's service under warranty, then hopefully they're not charging you directly.  As you read earlier, they (a service associate named Kirk), quoted me $600 in labor costs.

Fortunately the work they are preforming, swapping out two battery modules, is covered under the battery warranty.  I am very happy that they extended that warranty from 2 years to 5.  I will ask them what the out-of-pocket expense would have been.  $1,000? $2,000?

Is all of their communication with Polaris?  I wonder if they communicate with Brammo, too.

My understanding is that the dealership sends Polaris the log data from the bike and an individual (yes only 1 person) is responsible for diagnosing the issues and then tells the dealer what they need to order to perform the repair.  I am not sure exactly how much contact they have with Brammo but I do know that the battery modules were shipped from Brammo in Oregon.


*MY BIKE UPDATE*
I received a call on Friday letting me know that the new(maybe refurbished) batteries are in the bike and after a successful test ride everything is back to normal and it is ready for pick-up.  I was at my sister's wedding all day Saturday and they are closed Sunday and Monday.  Tuesday morning, 2 months after they received the bike from  Seattle E-bike, I will finally be back on my bike.  The Empluse is my only mode of transportation and in its absence I have been walking to and from my office 2.4 miles each way.  The smile under my helmet will be especially  large on Tuesday.

MichaelJ:
It will be interesting to hear what the final cost of your 6,000K service will be.
From how I am reading the manual the 6,000k service entails:
- Changing front brake fluid
- Changing rear brake fluid
- Changing clutch fluid
- Transmission oil change
- Front suspension oil change
- Repacking steering head bearings with grease (I would guess that this would not be done unless they were being paid to change the suspension oil.  It is not a simple task to get to these bearings)

*It could be justifiable for $300 dollars worth of labor for changing the front suspension oil and repacking the steering head bearings.  Those are time consuming tasks.

It doesn't sound like you are interested in any DIY but changing out the brake and clutch fluid on my bike has become very painless with the installation of http://www.speedbleeder.com bleeder screws.  They have an internal check valve that prevents any air from re-entering the system as you pump the old fluid out/new fluid in (it is baffling that these are not the standard for bleeder screws).  For any DIYers out there I highly recommend these.

[skuzzle]

It doesn't sound like you are interested in any DIY but changing out the brake and clutch fluid on my bike has become very painless with the installation of http://www.speedbleeder.com bleeder screws.  They have an internal check valve that prevents any air from re-entering the system as you pump the old fluid out/new fluid in (it is baffling that these are not the standard for bleeder screws).  For any DIYers out there I highly recommend these.

Could you post the sizes that you used.  I might give these a try.