My Dreams Come True? A Production Electric Harley?(photos and article links inc)

[Richard230]

I heard this story during the financial report on my radio this morning. The reporter said that the bike had a maximum range of 53 miles, which sounds more like it, considering the limited room in the relatively small chassis for a battery pack.

[frodus]

I'm sure they're quoting highway range as 53 miles and max range is 100 miles. We all know the difference but I doubt the reporters do. They're grabbing for whatever info they can find.

[Mithion]

Indeed, there has been confusion on the actual range. I've read 53 miles, a mistaken 110 miles and now this is the first unconfirmed statement of "around 100 miles".

The truth will come out eventually.

Could be that there are "modes" on the bike for performance -53 miles and range- around 100 miles

[Mithion]

CBS News Video claims the range is 53 miles.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/test-drive-harley-davidsons-livewire-electric-motorcycles/

[Shinysideup]

As an exercise in curious masochism, I waded (skimmed) through all 33 pages of discussion on a Harley forum:

http://www.hdforums.com/forum/general-harley-davidson-chat/976325-electric-harley-mega-thread.html

True to the stereotype, most comments were negative (The announcement of Project Livewire signals the beginning of the apocalypse), but there was a significant number of posts that expressed openness to the idea and even enthusiasm of looking forward to testing one.

A number of "I-would-never-ride-one" posters also expressed appreciation of the Motor Company's business sense in floating this bike.

[Mithion]

I think negative reactions were guaranteed and expected. Harley had to know they would be essentially "pissing off" their hardcore old school biker. I think Harley also knows that there are many people out there, like my self, who are young(I'm only 31) and like both the mystique and image of the Harley lifestyle but have also grown up in a technology age and are open to something like an electric motorcycle. If they produce this bike it will not break any kind of sales records but it will set a foundation and a long term plan for electric bikes slowly taking over.

[protomech]

Could be that there are "modes" on the bike for performance -53 miles and range- around 100 miles

That is partly correct. There are switchable performance modes and the estimated range remaining will update based upon the mode selected.

However, the actual range will likely depend mostly on how hard you accelerate and how fast you ride. I would expect "range" mode to deliver just as much range as "performance" mode at the same constant speed.

(Apologies if this is what you meant, just wanted to make sure everyone is clear)

[Shinysideup]

However, the actual range will likely depend mostly on how hard you accelerate and how fast you ride. I would expect "range" mode to deliver just as much range as "performance" mode at the same constant speed.

And just to bring this around to the Empulse world, while same constant speed in both modes does use the same amount of juice, I find that "Sport" mode gives me better range (given similar throttle use when accelerating), because the regen is so much more aggressive.

This is especially true in my case of going down the steep hills of San Francisco where Sport mode and a  42 tooth rear sprocket will generally hold the bike to 15 - 20 mph without using the brakes.

Of course, if I "get on it" in Sport mode, the bike will serve up 25% more torque than Normal mode, with a definite corresponding hit to the range.

All similarities to Harley's bike (both the project bike and the final production version, if any) are purely coincidental!

[Mithion]

Could be that there are "modes" on the bike for performance -53 miles and range- around 100 miles

That is partly correct. There are switchable performance modes and the estimated range remaining will update based upon the mode selected.

However, the actual range will likely depend mostly on how hard you accelerate and how fast you ride. I would expect "range" mode to deliver just as much range as "performance" mode at the same constant speed.

(Apologies if this is what you meant, just wanted to make sure everyone is clear)

That's interesting, I've never thought of it or realized it that way. I've always just thought that putting the bike say into an "economy" or "range" mode would literally limit how fast you could ride the bike so it saved energy no matter what you do. I was under the impression that a mode like that was some kind of software deal where the system will only put out a specific amount of power to ensure "economy" or oppositely "performance"

[ttxgpfan]

I would like to add that I have seen it reported in more than one place that the pack size and range was specifically targeted for the test rides, and not representing what the production bikes may come with. So it sounds like a limiting of risk for HD to me. And for me makes talk about range a bit of a moot point, as they only gave them enough to be able to be properly test ridden.

But, that's just me. Go on with yo' bad selves.

[Richard230]

My Zero seems to have slightly better range when in "Sport" mode than when in "Eco" mode, which I attribute to Eco mode having more regen drag than Sport mode, thereby slowing too rapidly and making me turn the throttle back on to keep moving at my desired speed when coasting down a moderate grade or to a stop. This weekend I modified my "Custom" mode to provide no regen on closed throttle and maximum regen when the brake was applied.  I then did my best to duplicate my typical ride to my daughter's home and arrived there using 2% less power than usual.

[Mithion]

So does coasting create any regen? Like just going down a hill with momentum, no throttle or brake?

[protomech]

I would like to add that I have seen it reported in more than one place that the pack size and range was specifically targeted for the test rides, and not representing what the production bikes may come with. So it sounds like a limiting of risk for HD to me. And for me makes talk about range a bit of a moot point, as they only gave them enough to be able to be properly test ridden.

But, that's just me. Go on with yo' bad selves.

That was my thought as well. It'd be awfully expensive to custom-design a frame and build a couple dozen battery packs in a non-production configuration, but nothing about this or a two year world-wide tour is inexpensive. I would guess that a 2016 release will probably be using different batteries anyways.

[Richard230]

So does coasting create any regen? Like just going down a hill with momentum, no throttle or brake?

Coasting creates no regen power as I currently have it dialed down to 0% in custom mode.  But by switching to sport or eco modes, I can reintroduce regen braking and power production at two different levels.  This can be done on the fly by shutting the throttle and switching to different modes with the switch that is located where the electric start switch is on an IC motorcycle. If I am riding down a steep hill, I can switch to eco mode and obtain maximum regeneration motor braking at the rear wheel

[Mithion]

If I were to come to your house in my brand new Lamborghini to show it off you'd want to see how fast it goes, how it handles, what it sounds like when I blip the throttle and how much attention it brings, most likely you wouldn't be like - "So, what's the gas mileage like?"

Harley made a small fleet of test ride bikes that will show off speed, handling, sound and looks. No one on this experience tour is going to take the bike on a ride for a full range run so right now Harley does not care what the range is. Hopefully they get enough positive feedback and decide to produce it with a range that makes sense, I'd imagine they would. I can't see a big company like Harley making a bike with only 53 miles of range, it just doesn't make sense.